I suspect that there is nothing beyond.Its my opinion that the universe is working up towards improvement, not that existance is downgrading due to any simplistic war between good and evil entities. In other words I dont believe things are being directed by a conscious entity. Imagine if that were a proven fact. What would everyone believe in then? Theyd have to create their own destiny. The members of the GB would have to get jobs as cleaners and window washers.
refiners fire
JoinedPosts by refiners fire
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price for truth
by peacefulpete inwhat would you be willing to pay for the answers to all your questions about life, death, religion, etc.?
and please noone say the clich`e , "noone really knows what is true".
this is a philosophical question.
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People that post questions constantly to feel big?
by REALNESS inshould people post oneline questions constantly?.
if so why do they do it the attention?, to see how many responses they get?.
min & jh your bloody questions are p*ss*ng me off, dont get me wrong i find some intresting, but after number 20 i lose the will to live..... i dont have to read them i know, but i am a nosey git and have to read everything.
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refiners fire
Troll. If Minimouse wants to post threads asking questions that his business. Its his gimmick and its a winner. If Id thought of it, I would have done it myself.If people dont like his gimmick they can ignore it. Noone makes anyone answer.
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Fragments of "Light"
by refiners fire inits a shame that one has to wade through 300 pages of boring twaddle to find a few pearls.
but then...you have me to do the wading!
some observations on the book light (volume 2/1930)
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refiners fire
"June 1 or 15, 1938 til October 8 or 22, 1944 is counted by them as 2300 days"
Noone. (Anyone). Its very odd that they are not sure exactly when the 2300 days commenced and ended. June 1 ? or June 15? Ive often wondered what their thinking was on not pinpointing it. Why are they jumping around between 2 options on this matter? Any theories?
I went thru all that calculator adding and subtracting for a while back there, but eventually I gave up. Its a bottomless pit. I dont know when you were in the Witnesses, whether you were there in the early 70s or not? But there is a most comprehensive article on this subject of the 2300 days in the December 1, 1971 WT , article: "What its 'right condition' means for us today" Actually, all of the Watchtowers from October thru December 1971 are compulsory reading, if you havent examined them, because thats when the Governing Body was created. Some of the articles are a real eye opener if you have not read them. If you have any recommended reading for myself , Id appreciate it. Always on the lookout for something I might have missed. Many thanks for your comments.
Trying to read petes post now.....
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To those who maybe confused a little!!!! to cheezebrain, minymouse&who RU?
by elumn8 inminimus and.
holey cheeses king of the juice!.
maybe your under developed minds can't comprehend (sorrry- i need to use smaller words) you just don't have the smallest brain to figure out anything of the bible.
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refiners fire
"folish go and buy oil
oil is gods oil of exaltaion
but only the people of the mark of the wild beast can buy or sell
buy and sell this oil AKA holy spirit AKA bible"explain this masterpiece of reasoning.How can those with the mark of the beast be the only ones who can buy and sell the holy spirit?
How do you arrive at the conclusion that the Holy Spirit equals the Bible.? . And you reckon only those with the mark of the beast can buy a Bible. So if youve got a Bible that means your marked dont it.
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To those who maybe confused a little!!!! to cheezebrain, minymouse&who RU?
by elumn8 inminimus and.
holey cheeses king of the juice!.
maybe your under developed minds can't comprehend (sorrry- i need to use smaller words) you just don't have the smallest brain to figure out anything of the bible.
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refiners fire
It might help if you didnt post up a load of gibberish . In other words...what the hell are you talkin about? I cant understand what ya wrote.
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Fragments of "Light"
by refiners fire inits a shame that one has to wade through 300 pages of boring twaddle to find a few pearls.
but then...you have me to do the wading!
some observations on the book light (volume 2/1930)
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refiners fire
Noone . I only got that Daniel book a fortnight ago froim one of the posters here who kindly mailed it to me at his own expense. I did notice that picture of Nebuchadnezzars dream "image" and yes, the first thing I noticed was Rome and Anglo America sharing the legs. A sure sign of shonky reasoning. I suppose in time the toes will come to symbolize the Anglo American power and the toe nails something even more terrible. Lol
Pris, ummm. I just read the three pages you quoted. I hadnt noticed that example you quote before, but it certainly appears to be a very good example of the WT turning a prophetic defeat into an amazing prophetic victory by means of some very basic selective quotation. Well spotted.
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New Light on the United Nations (U.N.) (Scarlet Beast)
by UnDisfellowshipped inthere appears to be "new light" in the latest watchtower magazine (june 1st 2003 issue).
several watchtower publications for the last 50+ years have said that the united nations (u.n.) organization ("the scarlet-colored wild beast" of revelation) would definitely be the organization that will carry out jehovah's judgment on "babylon the great" (false religion), and then, under satan's [gog of magog's] direction, the united nations organization would become "greedy", and try to attack the remaining remnant of the "anointed" jehovah's witnesses and their companions, the "great crowd" of "other sheep", and then jehovah and jesus would destroy the united nations organization, along with everyone else who was not a jehovah's witness.
here is a quote that shows this: .
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refiners fire
UDF, you tell us:
..."and THEN, Satan [Gog] would cause the exact same U.N. Organization ... to attack the Jehovah's Witnesses, "
Im not aware that this is a line that has been pushed much by the Tower. The UN will destroy the Harlot. Yes. Thats been pushed. But the UN attacking the Witnesses? I havent heard that one that I can recall. Can you present a couple of decent quotes backing this? I'll be very eager to examine them.
Great posts by the way.
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Fragments of "Light"
by refiners fire inits a shame that one has to wade through 300 pages of boring twaddle to find a few pearls.
but then...you have me to do the wading!
some observations on the book light (volume 2/1930)
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refiners fire
Its a shame that one has to wade through 300 pages of boring twaddle to find a few pearls. But then...you have me to do the wading!
Some o bservations on the book “Light” (Volume 2/1930)
Revelation 17 v 8 says :
“ The Beast that thou sawest was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition, and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life.,..”
The book “light” (1930) page 94, says about this “beast”:
“ It came into existence in 1899 and functioned until the World War. It then went into the Abyss and ceased to function. After the World War it came out of the abyss or pit and and began to function again in the form of the League of Nations”.
On page 103 it says:
“ It does seem marvelous to the people that this world confederacy for peace was killed and disappeared from 1914 to 1918 and then appeared again. And therefore they give their honor and worship to the beast (Revelation 13 v 8)”
So that’s an interesting one that I didn’t know about. The modern WT understanding that the U.N is the ‘scarlet beast’ was preceded by a former belief that the League was the scarlet beast. Doubtless in 50 years the UN will be the precursor and the ‘Organization for World Peace and Unity’ formed in 2025 ad, will be declared the scarlet beast. Is it any wonder they eventually decide to symbolically interpret everything? It’s the only way to cover their asses. Heres anothery that I didn’t know about:
The book “PAY ATTENTION TO DANIELS PROPHECY (1999) on page 139 has a picture of the image Nebuchadnezzar beheld in his dream. That with the head of gold and the feet of Iron and clay. The caption under the picture tells us the head of gold is Babylon. The breast of silver is Medo Persia. The bronze midriff is Greece and the iron legs signify Rome.
This is all very well and I though this had Always been the Orgs interpretation, but “Light” tells us on page 295:
“ More than 50 years ago some good, honest Christian people called Adventists published an interpretation of the foregoing prophecy….which in substance states that the terrible image represented the successive world powers, to wit, Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece and Rome…..”
And:
“That the true meaning of the terrible image could not be understood by any of those Whom Daniel represented until after the coming of the Lord to his temple. The foregoing interpretation having been made long before the coming of the Lord to his temple it is hardly likely that it would be correct…. It was after the Lord came to his temple in 1918 that his anointed people began to have a better understanding of the prophecies..”
Unfortunately, even 12 years after ‘The Lord came to his Temple’ some “Satanic thinking” still affected the “John Class”, so much so that they abandoned the TRUE interpretation postulated by Pastor Russell for a FALSE interpretation. And what a false interpretation it is. The book “Light” goes into a long speech about ‘organizations’, claiming that this image Nebuchadnezzar beheld was symbolic of Satans organization and the heirachy of command within it.
The ‘golden head’ pictures Satan himself. Page 314 tells us:
“ Daniel says ‘ And after thee shall another kingdom inferior to thee arise, and another third kingdom of copper…’ The word ‘after’ does not have reference to time, but rather
to inferiority, or station below Satan in his organization..”
The book then goes on to talk of the images breast of silver as :
“ Invisible rulers of Satan under the titles ‘prince of Persia’ and ‘prince of Grecia’….These invisible princes or rulers in Satans organization are shown as part of the terrible image …instead of these representing world powers, they represent lower orders than Lucifer in the great organization”.
The ‘feet of Iron and Clay’ naturally picture wicked and deceptive clergymen of Christendom. These are at the bottom of the Satanic control pyramid.This is a good example of the organization snuffing out one light and switching on another light, only to, later, have to switch on the old light again.
Or, to use another analogy, they have returned to the steaming pile of ‘food in due season’ which they formerly mistook for error and VOMITED out.
Hmmmm. There is another interesting thought developed on page 189:
“The God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly’; this Jehovah does by and through…Jesus Christ…at the beginning, not the end, of the millennial reign of Christ, as indicated by the word ‘shortly’in the text. The word ‘bruise’ here means to crush, and denotes that the crushed on would become lifeless. The great weight of authority found in the scriptures proves that …before the beginning of the reconstruction reign of Christ, Jesus will crush and kill Satan”…
So, according to this book, the Binding of Satan for a thousand years is considered to be binding him in DEATH. Then, all those who died either approved of God, or in ignorance of God will be resurrected and given the opportunity to serve God. This will not include those who are dead who were ‘wicked’ , comprised of:
“ … Judas and all of the Judas element, the Pharisees, a great crop of hypocrites described by Jesus when on earth as worthy of Gehenna..”
And of course all the dead Popes of History and their Bishops. Lol.
When the 1000 years end, Satan, and the ‘wicked’ (Hitler, Pharisees, Popes) will be resurrected for a brief time to vent their hatred of God and to test the restored and perfected ones.
As the book says on page 211 about the great horde that go to Satans side at the ‘test’ at the end of the 1000 years:
“ This scripture says that the number of those that follow Satan ‘is as the sand of the sea’ showing a tremendous multitude. At that time all national lines will be wiped out and restored man will be one nation. Then what could it mean that ‘he goes out to deceive the nations that are in the 4 quarters of the earth’? ….The most reasonable answer is that the great horde has been reserved in death during the millennial reign of Christ, and now, is brought forth from the tomb…”
I like this explanation better than the current WT position, It makes a lot more sense, they should return to this belief and lap it up from where they dumped it.
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Would you change user name?
by JH in.
if you had to choose another user name, what would you choose?.
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refiners fire
Id like to down grade mine from what it to just plain Refiner. I feel 'Refiners Fire' is a bit pretentious and chose it originally because the recurring Rs and Fs lent a balance and symmetry that appealed to my eye.
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The Shifting Sands of Interpretation
by refiners fire inpondering upon the shifting sands of watchtower interpretation down the years, it is worthwhile to consider just one example of one scripture.
we could look at many scriptures and establish ongoing shift, but here we will look at the ongoing shift of understanding relevant to the scripture at revelation 16 v 3 as an example:
and the second poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man, and every living soul died, even the things that were in the sea.
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refiners fire
Hey JG: What is the difference between these 2 phrases?
"This eighth king - the last one that John envisions- represents the United Nations"
"This eighth king - the last one that John envisions-now represents the United Nations"
If it represents the UN NOW ....will it still represent the UN tomorrow? I point this out because Ive seen that word "now" used so many times in flying saucer cults that it isnt funny.